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	<title>Comments on: What do YOU do when local keyword research says zero?</title>
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	<description>SEO, Local Search Optimization and Website Design for small web business owners</description>
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		<title>By: Still Not Doing Keyword Research? - WordZe Keyword Research Tool &#124; How to Market and Monetize Your Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197&#038;cpage=1#comment-59347</link>
		<dc:creator>Still Not Doing Keyword Research? - WordZe Keyword Research Tool &#124; How to Market and Monetize Your Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 03:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197#comment-59347</guid>
		<description>[...] What do YOU do when local keyword research says zero?  1Cat.biz Tags: keyword research, keyword tools, wordze [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] What do YOU do when local keyword research says zero?  1Cat.biz Tags: keyword research, keyword tools, wordze [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197&#038;cpage=1#comment-58488</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197#comment-58488</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the clarification, Max. Sounds like it&#039;s a good thing your school offers diverse classes!

Hope to see you here again.
Miriam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the clarification, Max. Sounds like it&#8217;s a good thing your school offers diverse classes!</p>
<p>Hope to see you here again.<br />
Miriam</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197&#038;cpage=1#comment-58278</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:56:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197#comment-58278</guid>
		<description>When I ran the PPC campaign for my Martial Arts school some of the keywords I tried did get zero but some got more. For example, my Martial Arts is a comprehensive one so I could say we are a sort of mix of hapkido, karate, tae kwon do, and kickboxing. So I could run adds about all the style, but if I was just a tae kwon do it would not make sense and my bounce rate probably would have been a lot higher. So I tried a bunch of different Martial Arts style titles with our city after it and some did get zero but some also got more. Some reaching 50 to 100 impressions in a week. Those weren&#039;t the only keywords I was testing but you get the idea. It was pretty cheap and quick to figure out what was happening in the local market for Martial Arts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I ran the PPC campaign for my Martial Arts school some of the keywords I tried did get zero but some got more. For example, my Martial Arts is a comprehensive one so I could say we are a sort of mix of hapkido, karate, tae kwon do, and kickboxing. So I could run adds about all the style, but if I was just a tae kwon do it would not make sense and my bounce rate probably would have been a lot higher. So I tried a bunch of different Martial Arts style titles with our city after it and some did get zero but some also got more. Some reaching 50 to 100 impressions in a week. Those weren&#8217;t the only keywords I was testing but you get the idea. It was pretty cheap and quick to figure out what was happening in the local market for Martial Arts.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197&#038;cpage=1#comment-58247</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 04:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197#comment-58247</guid>
		<description>&quot;We get more search phrases by far for the state names than the city names&quot; 

See, and that&#039;s not something you&#039;d intuitively expect, Dave, though I suppose it would depend on the nature of the search. I can imagine searching for &#039;Audubon Society CA&#039;, but not &#039;pizza California&#039;. I guess the type of business will influence, naturally, to some degree, whether state or city is more prominent, but your data shows that state names may yield much great traffic in some instances.

That&#039;s really neat.

You blow me away, Dave.
Miriam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We get more search phrases by far for the state names than the city names&#8221; </p>
<p>See, and that&#8217;s not something you&#8217;d intuitively expect, Dave, though I suppose it would depend on the nature of the search. I can imagine searching for &#8216;Audubon Society CA&#8217;, but not &#8216;pizza California&#8217;. I guess the type of business will influence, naturally, to some degree, whether state or city is more prominent, but your data shows that state names may yield much great traffic in some instances.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s really neat.</p>
<p>You blow me away, Dave.<br />
Miriam</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197&#038;cpage=1#comment-58241</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 04:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197#comment-58241</guid>
		<description>Hi SMG Directory Marketing,
I have great respect for you PPC folks. That is not our area, and the whole process of targeting ad campaigns is a fascinating one. It sounds like, from your comments, and others, this is a very rewarding way to do research.

Thank you for taking the time to share what you know. Hope to see you here again.
Miriam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi SMG Directory Marketing,<br />
I have great respect for you PPC folks. That is not our area, and the whole process of targeting ad campaigns is a fascinating one. It sounds like, from your comments, and others, this is a very rewarding way to do research.</p>
<p>Thank you for taking the time to share what you know. Hope to see you here again.<br />
Miriam</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Pittsburgh Bartending School</title>
		<link>http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197&#038;cpage=1#comment-58136</link>
		<dc:creator>Pittsburgh Bartending School</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197#comment-58136</guid>
		<description>I went into the analytics package for a strongly ranked local business site for the last 30 days:

Over 5300 searches

the site is highly ranked in engines for the generic business terms and of course the local terms.

Most searched phrase, over 400 searches

most searched local/regional phrase  39.

I scanned hard over search terms that had hit the site at least twice.

Of that I counted 18 different variations of applicable business terms with an appropriate geo phrase.  This is a site that works 2 state names and a city name and it is a large market.  Business wise it can draw customers (not many) from 2 nearby metro markets.  I had previously checked the metro regions population totals and between 3 smsa markets there is a population of about 7 million + so it appeals to a pretty big market.

Then I did a re review to look more closely at the impact of organic search traffic that was very local.

Of the search phrases that had a local context (the city name or an appropriate regional/county/town name that included a business service phrase there were 441 searches  (i.e.  I excluded the phrases with state names since some of those people were looking from too far away.

Then I scanned the single visit phrases.  I stopped counting at 70 visits for a phrase that represented a nearby town/county name/zip code with the business service.

So for the most recent 1 month period I&#039;m looking at well over 500 search phrases that represent a purely local context, at least.

We get more search phrases by far for the state names than the city names and I&#039;d guess that at least 30% of those searches are within the geographical reach of this business. (It could be close to 50%)

Anyways this doesn&#039;t answer your question but it sort of speaks to the long tail of adding content to capture a lot of phrases.

I think all the methods above to pull search terms are appropriate.  My experience is that I&#039;d use a search for the generic business terms without the local geography phrase and just start adding content than optimize for the most important combinations, based on guess work.  

If your client will be willing to run an ad campaign I&#039;d do that:  even without hits your getting estimates on impressions and visits and that gives you insights on how and where to optimize.

Dave</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went into the analytics package for a strongly ranked local business site for the last 30 days:</p>
<p>Over 5300 searches</p>
<p>the site is highly ranked in engines for the generic business terms and of course the local terms.</p>
<p>Most searched phrase, over 400 searches</p>
<p>most searched local/regional phrase  39.</p>
<p>I scanned hard over search terms that had hit the site at least twice.</p>
<p>Of that I counted 18 different variations of applicable business terms with an appropriate geo phrase.  This is a site that works 2 state names and a city name and it is a large market.  Business wise it can draw customers (not many) from 2 nearby metro markets.  I had previously checked the metro regions population totals and between 3 smsa markets there is a population of about 7 million + so it appeals to a pretty big market.</p>
<p>Then I did a re review to look more closely at the impact of organic search traffic that was very local.</p>
<p>Of the search phrases that had a local context (the city name or an appropriate regional/county/town name that included a business service phrase there were 441 searches  (i.e.  I excluded the phrases with state names since some of those people were looking from too far away.</p>
<p>Then I scanned the single visit phrases.  I stopped counting at 70 visits for a phrase that represented a nearby town/county name/zip code with the business service.</p>
<p>So for the most recent 1 month period I&#8217;m looking at well over 500 search phrases that represent a purely local context, at least.</p>
<p>We get more search phrases by far for the state names than the city names and I&#8217;d guess that at least 30% of those searches are within the geographical reach of this business. (It could be close to 50%)</p>
<p>Anyways this doesn&#8217;t answer your question but it sort of speaks to the long tail of adding content to capture a lot of phrases.</p>
<p>I think all the methods above to pull search terms are appropriate.  My experience is that I&#8217;d use a search for the generic business terms without the local geography phrase and just start adding content than optimize for the most important combinations, based on guess work.  </p>
<p>If your client will be willing to run an ad campaign I&#8217;d do that:  even without hits your getting estimates on impressions and visits and that gives you insights on how and where to optimize.</p>
<p>Dave</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: SMG Directory Marketing</title>
		<link>http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197&#038;cpage=1#comment-58133</link>
		<dc:creator>SMG Directory Marketing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197#comment-58133</guid>
		<description>One thing that I&#039;ve done working with local businesses, and something that was briefly touched on prior is running a paid search campaign in that area to see what people are searching for.  We generally run an IP targeted campaign, which will give you an overall idea of what people are looking for, and a geo-modified campaign, which will provide examples of which phrases are being used with geo-modifiers.  This has worked out extremely well for us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing that I&#8217;ve done working with local businesses, and something that was briefly touched on prior is running a paid search campaign in that area to see what people are searching for.  We generally run an IP targeted campaign, which will give you an overall idea of what people are looking for, and a geo-modified campaign, which will provide examples of which phrases are being used with geo-modifiers.  This has worked out extremely well for us.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197&#038;cpage=1#comment-58115</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197#comment-58115</guid>
		<description>Don,
Thank you so much for adding your PPC experience to this. It sounds like it has yielded some very good data after a couple of months&#039; observation. Cool!

Dave,
Now, the trick with your extremely good route will, of course, be getting clients to understand the importance of expanding their website so that multiple terms can be covered. So often, small businesses are looking for small sites - 5 pages or so. That&#039;s not going to cut it if you&#039;re looking to cover dozens, scores or hundreds of phrases. 

This is why I love to advocate the addition of a blog to a business site because of the ability it gives the siteowner to continuously expand the keywords they are covering, widening that ring around the bullseye ever farther.

Great stuff, Dave!
Miriam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don,<br />
Thank you so much for adding your PPC experience to this. It sounds like it has yielded some very good data after a couple of months&#8217; observation. Cool!</p>
<p>Dave,<br />
Now, the trick with your extremely good route will, of course, be getting clients to understand the importance of expanding their website so that multiple terms can be covered. So often, small businesses are looking for small sites &#8211; 5 pages or so. That&#8217;s not going to cut it if you&#8217;re looking to cover dozens, scores or hundreds of phrases. </p>
<p>This is why I love to advocate the addition of a blog to a business site because of the ability it gives the siteowner to continuously expand the keywords they are covering, widening that ring around the bullseye ever farther.</p>
<p>Great stuff, Dave!<br />
Miriam</p>
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		<title>By: Pittsburgh Bartending School</title>
		<link>http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197&#038;cpage=1#comment-58086</link>
		<dc:creator>Pittsburgh Bartending School</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197#comment-58086</guid>
		<description>I think all the ideas are great.

My main point is that for a local/regional buisness there may not be a measurable amount of traffic for most keyword tools.  Wordze, of course uses an enormous database, and it appears that seodigger also uses an enormous data base and presents the information differently.  

Keyword expansion is the key to drawing lots of traffic regardless how tiny the traffic for the main phrase might be. 

I like all the suggestions above, but my experience dictates that in a variety of industries there are a lot of applications of the secondary keywords for a generic business term, and within that geography there are many searches of the generic business term and logical geographic areas.

In my example above, if I broke it down to one state, the single most active business term with the state name might deliver 40 visits, but I&#039;m getting about 600 total visits with the state name and a variety of business terms.  A couple of relatively highly trafficked terms, might include the main business term and the state initials, and the logical variations of state name first, main business term 2nd; state initial first main business terms 2nd and then searches with the main business term first and the state name or initial 2nd.  But even after those big 4 variations, I still might have all of 100- 120 searches out of a total of 600.  

The bulk of traffic is coming from variations on business terms.

Another way to expand traffic for a region or a county might be to add town names within the county onto the content of the site.  I don&#039;t know the towns in California counties, but in Maryland/Montgomery County, I&#039;d add content that includes Bethesda, Silver Spring, Germantown, Rockville, Olney, Wheaton, etc.

That adds traffic with some searches representing searches for the business term and town names.  Cripes, I&#039;d add zip codes ...some people search for a service and add their local zip code.  I&#039;d add regional phrases that are used, for Chicago, I might add &quot;the loop&quot; to content, and for my area I&#039;d add Southern Maryland specifically to content.

I really like the ideas above for ascertaining the usage of a business term and the geography....but I also like using generic terms for a business service from any basic keyword tool, ensuring that you are adding all the secondary terms and then just adding all the geography you can into the content to try and show up for any type of search in the area.

Frankly, Will&#039;s example of weak links working for a local business also gives insights into the wide variety of 2ndary terms that might be applied.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think all the ideas are great.</p>
<p>My main point is that for a local/regional buisness there may not be a measurable amount of traffic for most keyword tools.  Wordze, of course uses an enormous database, and it appears that seodigger also uses an enormous data base and presents the information differently.  </p>
<p>Keyword expansion is the key to drawing lots of traffic regardless how tiny the traffic for the main phrase might be. </p>
<p>I like all the suggestions above, but my experience dictates that in a variety of industries there are a lot of applications of the secondary keywords for a generic business term, and within that geography there are many searches of the generic business term and logical geographic areas.</p>
<p>In my example above, if I broke it down to one state, the single most active business term with the state name might deliver 40 visits, but I&#8217;m getting about 600 total visits with the state name and a variety of business terms.  A couple of relatively highly trafficked terms, might include the main business term and the state initials, and the logical variations of state name first, main business term 2nd; state initial first main business terms 2nd and then searches with the main business term first and the state name or initial 2nd.  But even after those big 4 variations, I still might have all of 100- 120 searches out of a total of 600.  </p>
<p>The bulk of traffic is coming from variations on business terms.</p>
<p>Another way to expand traffic for a region or a county might be to add town names within the county onto the content of the site.  I don&#8217;t know the towns in California counties, but in Maryland/Montgomery County, I&#8217;d add content that includes Bethesda, Silver Spring, Germantown, Rockville, Olney, Wheaton, etc.</p>
<p>That adds traffic with some searches representing searches for the business term and town names.  Cripes, I&#8217;d add zip codes &#8230;some people search for a service and add their local zip code.  I&#8217;d add regional phrases that are used, for Chicago, I might add &#8220;the loop&#8221; to content, and for my area I&#8217;d add Southern Maryland specifically to content.</p>
<p>I really like the ideas above for ascertaining the usage of a business term and the geography&#8230;.but I also like using generic terms for a business service from any basic keyword tool, ensuring that you are adding all the secondary terms and then just adding all the geography you can into the content to try and show up for any type of search in the area.</p>
<p>Frankly, Will&#8217;s example of weak links working for a local business also gives insights into the wide variety of 2ndary terms that might be applied.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197&#038;cpage=1#comment-58049</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=197#comment-58049</guid>
		<description>@Max - 
I&#039;ve tried the local-PPC strategy, as well. What I&#039;ve found is that after a couple months of running an AdWords campaign, Google&#039;s Keyword Tool suddenly has stats for a lot of new, focused phrases. It appears that the PPC campaign triggers the AdWords bot/algo to begin gathering (or at least displaying) web-wide KW data for that niche.

Now, several months after starting an AdWords campaign for which I had to do a lot of guessing, I not only have a lot of data from the campaign itself, I also have loads of data via the keywords tool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Max &#8211;<br />
I&#8217;ve tried the local-PPC strategy, as well. What I&#8217;ve found is that after a couple months of running an AdWords campaign, Google&#8217;s Keyword Tool suddenly has stats for a lot of new, focused phrases. It appears that the PPC campaign triggers the AdWords bot/algo to begin gathering (or at least displaying) web-wide KW data for that niche.</p>
<p>Now, several months after starting an AdWords campaign for which I had to do a lot of guessing, I not only have a lot of data from the campaign itself, I also have loads of data via the keywords tool.</p>
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